Israel Selling Off Holy Places in Jerusalem???
- - - - by Akiva
For the past 2 weeks, a woman in the U.S. has been trying to pin down rumors that the government of Israel is selling off parts of Mount Zion, specifically the area of Dovid HaMelek's (King David's) tomb and the location of the Diaspora Yeshiva (Jewish religious school) in Jerusalem to the Vatican. Vatican Press says it's happening, Israeli government spokespersons alternately say no, yes, maybe, never, could be, and "we can do whatever we want without telling anyone"...
From: Elisheva - Dovid_Protect@yahoo.com -
To: GPONEWS@NETVISION.NET.IL, hagit@president.gov.il, POL_ADV@PRESIDENT.GOV.IL, president@president.gov.il
CC: press@israelemb.org
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005
=======================
B"H
Adventures in Communication efforts with the Israeli Gov't,
An Oxymoronic experience.
This is a brief report of today's conversations, - well sort of, the first two were mainly them yelling - with: Avi Granot, Political Advisor to (Israeli) President Moshe Katav; & Ms. Hagit, spokesperson for Presidnet Katsav (+972-2-670-7223 / 51) & in Washington D.C., the Deputy Chief of Mission, Mr. Jeremy Issacharoff (+1-202-364-5578).
Greetings:
All week I have been trying to be awake in both time zones, trying to stop the attack on Mount Zion, so I'm exhausted. But I wanted to get this out - for what its worth - before Shabbos starts there.
The past 24 hours have been intense. Well the whole week, but - if I have learned anything about how the State of Israel is run, and would advise people about what to do, it is this: Be prepared to yell and scream. It seems to be what the administration is used to! If you are polite and rational and courteous, you will get hung up on immediately. Do make threats, even if you can't make good on them. Also, it earns you bonus points if you can get out a whole sentence and repeat it, regardless of the content. I know it sounds dreadful, but don't let it bother you - its just de Rigueur!
Early the past morning I actually spoke with Avi Granot - "Political advisor" to (Israeli) President Katsav. I expected to just tell a receptionist that the Diaspora Yeshiva (Jewish religious school currently located on the proposed site to be transferred to the Vatican) should get their lease - and today. All of a sudden she transferred me to him. She insisted and just went head and did it. My primary message was to insist that a lease to Diaspora Yeshiva must be given immediately, as it is the only way to show us that something very bad is not being planned. Mostly what I got out of him is that he doesn't think he or Katsav account to the people at all (as in, what the people think is irrelevent, whatever the government wants to to, it can).
I explained to him that everyone is very upset and worried, and angry, and the way to make everything better was just to give the lease so we know nothing bad is happening. He tried to dismiss my concerns by his released statement. I told him that his statements are like being given an empty envelope, and are insulting.
[See the worthless, insulting empty statement, dated November 9, 2005 - STATEMENT FROM PRESIDENT KATSAV'S OFFICE - DENIAL OF VATICAN MT. ZION HAND OVER - posted at ISFSP.org, which is hosting the Save Mount Zion information website: http://www.isfsp.org/katsav2.html ]
He started rattling off lists of all sorts of things he said were not happening, in a very odd sing song manner, and offered no proof. He refused to say anyting at all affirmative.
Sometimes he would just start yelling, out of the blue. Other times he started talking gently like to a small child. His affect had almost nothing to do with mine - nor his own words. He kept yelling at me, and then saying if I didn't trust him, he would just hang up. So I started to yell back, and to my amazement, he did not hang up. One would have expected the reverse! This was repeated multiple times, for maybe 20 minutes.
He recognizes that Diaspora Yeshiva did not get a lease, says it is not his concern, and refused to answer the obvious question: well, if you are removing them, Who is going in?
He claims that the President has no authority to sign any agreement [such as with Rome]. At one point, regarding the planned Israeli presidential visit to Rome, and his blanket denials of everything and anything, he said, "That's not on our agenda". So I asked him if "that" is not on the agenda for Rome, what is? He went nuts, "I don't need to tell you what I am doing! We have no reason to tell what we [are going to do]" etc. I corrected him and said that in a democracy or republic The People do have to be told in advance, and their views solicited. I told him that the "agenda" [for the visit to Rome] should be posted and up for public review before acted on, just as governments do in the U.S.A.
He started going on about affairs of the state, and how the government can do what it wants and does not need to post things for public review before they act, and so on. I kept telling him that he has no respect for democracy and The People. The only thing I can remember him not denying is that Arabs might be involved.
So of course I had to call back a little while later to see if he had gotten the lease ready to send to the Yeshiva. It turns out he was in a meeting, but to my amazement, Spokeswoman Hagit personally answered the phone, so I had the opportunity to "talk" with her, too.
I have to admit, Avi Granot is much better to argue with than is Hagit. At least his Engish is comprehensible. Further, if you keep talking, he calms down more quickly. Finally, he does not hang up the phone on you. However, he is much more likely to hurl insults and make patronizing and derogatory statements. But this is just de Rigueur!
Hagit just yells things in Hebrew which she seems to think are in English. This actually turned out to be helpful, because when she started yelling, I could yell at her that I did not understand her, and it helped her to manage her anger. I am certain that if I understood Hebrew and if she thought that I actually knew what she said, the discussion would have ended immediately.
Frankly, my experience with this "spokeswoman" is that she really doesn't say anything at all. She did not address the concerns presented to her. How about if we dub her an Un-Spokeswoman? But maybe this is just more de Rigueur!
Finally, at the end of the afternoon here, 4:00 pm EST, I called the Israeli Embassy in Washington. I happen to have the old phone list which includes the direct line for the Deputy Chief of Mission. [This number is not on the new list.]
So when I called it, Deputy Chief Issacharoff personally picked up the phone. He was in a meeting, but actually sounded kindly compared with the first characters. Maybe he couldn't follow the de Rigueur of yelling due to eye witnesses in his office. I thanked him for taking the call; told him we are all heartsick out here and that the government is keeping it a secret which is upsetting. I asked him to please save Mt. Zion for us, and to have a lease immediately be given to the Yeshiva. I also told him that Gen. Halutz is threatening the Hesder Yeshiva's (a religious studies/army framework in Israel) again, and is making us look stupid to the Muslims, which encourages them to attack. I followed this up with a FAX of the Israel National News article on Halutz. [10 November 2005 "The Chief of Staff is Transient - The Torah is Not" http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=92786 ]
Anyhow, if I remember more specifics, I will send it along after Shabbos. And I encourage everyone to go right ahead, call these nasty officials and argue with them. If enough of us do this, it will wear them down and they will give in.
Its now 2 am E.S.T., and I need sleep. But first I think I'll call Mr. Granot and wish him a good morning. And while I'm at it, I will ask him if he brought the lease to the Yeshiva like I told him to do yesterday. In Faith, Elisheva
From: Elisheva - Dovid_Protect@yahoo.com -
To: GPONEWS@NETVISION.NET.IL, hagit@president.gov.il, POL_ADV@PRESIDENT.GOV.IL, president@president.gov.il
CC: press@israelemb.org
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005
=======================
B"H
Adventures in Communication efforts with the Israeli Gov't,
An Oxymoronic experience.
This is a brief report of today's conversations, - well sort of, the first two were mainly them yelling - with: Avi Granot, Political Advisor to (Israeli) President Moshe Katav; & Ms. Hagit, spokesperson for Presidnet Katsav (+972-2-670-7223 / 51) & in Washington D.C., the Deputy Chief of Mission, Mr. Jeremy Issacharoff (+1-202-364-5578).
Greetings:
All week I have been trying to be awake in both time zones, trying to stop the attack on Mount Zion, so I'm exhausted. But I wanted to get this out - for what its worth - before Shabbos starts there.
The past 24 hours have been intense. Well the whole week, but - if I have learned anything about how the State of Israel is run, and would advise people about what to do, it is this: Be prepared to yell and scream. It seems to be what the administration is used to! If you are polite and rational and courteous, you will get hung up on immediately. Do make threats, even if you can't make good on them. Also, it earns you bonus points if you can get out a whole sentence and repeat it, regardless of the content. I know it sounds dreadful, but don't let it bother you - its just de Rigueur!
Early the past morning I actually spoke with Avi Granot - "Political advisor" to (Israeli) President Katsav. I expected to just tell a receptionist that the Diaspora Yeshiva (Jewish religious school currently located on the proposed site to be transferred to the Vatican) should get their lease - and today. All of a sudden she transferred me to him. She insisted and just went head and did it. My primary message was to insist that a lease to Diaspora Yeshiva must be given immediately, as it is the only way to show us that something very bad is not being planned. Mostly what I got out of him is that he doesn't think he or Katsav account to the people at all (as in, what the people think is irrelevent, whatever the government wants to to, it can).
I explained to him that everyone is very upset and worried, and angry, and the way to make everything better was just to give the lease so we know nothing bad is happening. He tried to dismiss my concerns by his released statement. I told him that his statements are like being given an empty envelope, and are insulting.
[See the worthless, insulting empty statement, dated November 9, 2005 - STATEMENT FROM PRESIDENT KATSAV'S OFFICE - DENIAL OF VATICAN MT. ZION HAND OVER - posted at ISFSP.org, which is hosting the Save Mount Zion information website: http://www.isfsp.org/katsav2.html ]
He started rattling off lists of all sorts of things he said were not happening, in a very odd sing song manner, and offered no proof. He refused to say anyting at all affirmative.
Sometimes he would just start yelling, out of the blue. Other times he started talking gently like to a small child. His affect had almost nothing to do with mine - nor his own words. He kept yelling at me, and then saying if I didn't trust him, he would just hang up. So I started to yell back, and to my amazement, he did not hang up. One would have expected the reverse! This was repeated multiple times, for maybe 20 minutes.
He recognizes that Diaspora Yeshiva did not get a lease, says it is not his concern, and refused to answer the obvious question: well, if you are removing them, Who is going in?
He claims that the President has no authority to sign any agreement [such as with Rome]. At one point, regarding the planned Israeli presidential visit to Rome, and his blanket denials of everything and anything, he said, "That's not on our agenda". So I asked him if "that" is not on the agenda for Rome, what is? He went nuts, "I don't need to tell you what I am doing! We have no reason to tell what we [are going to do]" etc. I corrected him and said that in a democracy or republic The People do have to be told in advance, and their views solicited. I told him that the "agenda" [for the visit to Rome] should be posted and up for public review before acted on, just as governments do in the U.S.A.
He started going on about affairs of the state, and how the government can do what it wants and does not need to post things for public review before they act, and so on. I kept telling him that he has no respect for democracy and The People. The only thing I can remember him not denying is that Arabs might be involved.
So of course I had to call back a little while later to see if he had gotten the lease ready to send to the Yeshiva. It turns out he was in a meeting, but to my amazement, Spokeswoman Hagit personally answered the phone, so I had the opportunity to "talk" with her, too.
I have to admit, Avi Granot is much better to argue with than is Hagit. At least his Engish is comprehensible. Further, if you keep talking, he calms down more quickly. Finally, he does not hang up the phone on you. However, he is much more likely to hurl insults and make patronizing and derogatory statements. But this is just de Rigueur!
Hagit just yells things in Hebrew which she seems to think are in English. This actually turned out to be helpful, because when she started yelling, I could yell at her that I did not understand her, and it helped her to manage her anger. I am certain that if I understood Hebrew and if she thought that I actually knew what she said, the discussion would have ended immediately.
Frankly, my experience with this "spokeswoman" is that she really doesn't say anything at all. She did not address the concerns presented to her. How about if we dub her an Un-Spokeswoman? But maybe this is just more de Rigueur!
Finally, at the end of the afternoon here, 4:00 pm EST, I called the Israeli Embassy in Washington. I happen to have the old phone list which includes the direct line for the Deputy Chief of Mission. [This number is not on the new list.]
So when I called it, Deputy Chief Issacharoff personally picked up the phone. He was in a meeting, but actually sounded kindly compared with the first characters. Maybe he couldn't follow the de Rigueur of yelling due to eye witnesses in his office. I thanked him for taking the call; told him we are all heartsick out here and that the government is keeping it a secret which is upsetting. I asked him to please save Mt. Zion for us, and to have a lease immediately be given to the Yeshiva. I also told him that Gen. Halutz is threatening the Hesder Yeshiva's (a religious studies/army framework in Israel) again, and is making us look stupid to the Muslims, which encourages them to attack. I followed this up with a FAX of the Israel National News article on Halutz. [10 November 2005 "The Chief of Staff is Transient - The Torah is Not" http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=92786 ]
Anyhow, if I remember more specifics, I will send it along after Shabbos. And I encourage everyone to go right ahead, call these nasty officials and argue with them. If enough of us do this, it will wear them down and they will give in.
Its now 2 am E.S.T., and I need sleep. But first I think I'll call Mr. Granot and wish him a good morning. And while I'm at it, I will ask him if he brought the lease to the Yeshiva like I told him to do yesterday. In Faith, Elisheva
posted by Akiva at 1:42 PM |
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